FasterSkier Forums » Training

1. juniorbiathlete
   Member

   Since I am a biathlete, I don't classic ski...ever. All my ski training is skate skiing. I notice that after longer periods of time, say 1 hour plus, (though it doesn't always hold true) my knees start to ache and then hurt when I am done. I find if I ice them every night before bed for about 20min that is seems to help significantly. If I forget to ice, even if I didn't ski that day, they will hurt more than usual the next day. I grew up running and added skiing at 13 (I'm 18 now) and I've always had trouble with my knees at times. Since about 12-14 I've been icing my knees every night as a preventative measure, and when things flare up I make sure to run on soft surfaces only. My knees don't always hurt after skiing, its irregular it seems. Mostly they hurt afterwards but sometimes start to hurt during. Its usually not so painful I can't comfortable ski through it, but occasionally it gets to be painful enough that I stop skiing so I don't irritate anything. The day after races my knees are especially tender.

   Can anyone tell me why this happens and how I can prevent it?

   Posted 1 year ago #

2. Zach Hudson
   Member

   Mix in some classic to your training, especially on easy days. It might seem like it won't help, but classic skiing uses a slightly different set of muscles, and stabilizers, which saves wear and tear on your "skate legs." It's a lot like the cross training most runners do, but classic skiing has more direct benefits to a biathlete in terms of strength and balance than swimming or biking do for runners. Classic skiing is also really fun, I hope this helps.

   Posted 1 year ago #

3. tclaynm@juno.com
   Member

   I'm familiar with your problem, although more because I always end up skiing a lot in the early "on-snow" season without having done an adequate amount of ski-specific training. I end up with that sore knee thing because my lower leg muscles aren't really in shape and they are basically over-stressed. The icing is just one component for remedy.

   Zach H. touched on a very good point: you need to classic ski to balance your skiing (and skiing physiology). Mainly, classic will help to strengthen the lower leg muscles and increase your balance capabilities. Get one or two of those balance cushions and do some one-leg exercises on them to increase your lower leg strength and just all around proprioception -- you can also do these without the cushions, but they increase the effect by a huge factor.

   The knee pain is usually a transmitted pain that is actually coming from the extreme tightness and "banded" nature of the lower leg muscles: peroneus and tibialis. You need to get a foam roller or rolling stick and go to town on massaging them to soften them up and get blood flow. This will need to happen a couple of times a day. You gotta go deep in there to really soften them up. When they get "banded," they will transmit the pain into your knee, where they are attached...this happens too long, and you will have tendonitis. Sitting or standing in a bucket of ice-water up to your thigh is better than just applying an ice pack. It will get rid of all the inflammed areas from feet to knees, which is all connected and contributing to the knee pain.

   Finally, a regular stretching routine each evening will also help alleviate the tightness that results from skating. Be sure to incorporate all parts of the legs: hamstrings, IT bands, quads, glutes, lower leg in multiple directions (peroneus is on the sides, tibialis is in the front). Feet and calf muscles are also important. Do it before bed or before dinner and make it a habit. Look up stretching routines on the 'net or get with someone who knows about it.

   You hear a lot of BS about do/don't stretch at night, but take it from someone who has been an athlete for a very long time: stretching at night is very beneficial for recovery and injury prevention.

   Good luck!

   Posted 1 year ago #

4. Peter Minde
   Member

   Both Zach and tclaynm have excellent points. In your post, you didn't mention whether you were doing any double pole workouts; these are another good reason for classic skiing. If running and skate skiing are the only activities you're doing, mixing things up with dp, cycling, swimming etc can alleviate any overuse issues.

   I'm unsure from your post if you spend any time in a gym. It's possible that the pain you're describing is due to a muscle imbalance that can be addressed through general strength training. A good sports medicine doctor can diagnose that sort of thing and prescribe appropriate physical therapy. Good luck,

   Posted 1 year ago #

5. sailguy
   Member

   Lots of good ideas here.

   Given the username of juniorbiathlete, I would suspect a muscle imbalance. As a junior, muscle strength and power can be built very quickly. This makes it much easier to get into trouble with highly developed 'propulsion' muscles and relatively weak 'stability' muscles.

   I would reinforce the stretching (gently, 45 seconds minimum per muscle), but also suggest finding another activity to improve knee stability. My personal favourites are ice skating (zone zero crossover drills especially) and easy running on highly technical trails. Your options are limited by where you live and what is available at this time of year. Basically, try anything that puts lateral stresses on the knee but doesn't cause injury. Soccer/basketball are probably too risky if knee stability is the problem, leave them for the summer.

   Posted 1 year ago #

6. D. Diehl
   Member

   Are you using the Salomon Pilot Bindings or Rottefella NNN? Pain when skiing on hard pack and soft conditions?

   Posted 1 year ago #

7. juniorbiathlete
   Member

   I'll try to answer the above questions.

   I do some cross training--about 1 DP session each week, a little running (though I am trying to take some time off running right now) and biking when the weather isn't terribly windy. I have backed down on this lately because it just not any fun to bike or run when its 25-30F and 20-30mph winds which has been the norm lately at my house. Skiing is a little more bearable because it keeps me warmer.

   I do stretch every night and I know when I don't I pay for it the next day.

   No, I do not spend time in the gym. But I do some plyos and Lower body strength, no weights, just body weight exercises.

   I am using Rottefella NNN bindings with atomic race skate boots. My knees hurt randomly, sometimes but not always, unpredictable I'd say. They can be irritated by rollerskiing or snow skiing...so far I've only really skied on average conditions so I couldn't comment on hard/soft yet.

   Posted 1 year ago #

8. D. Diehl
   Member

   There are benefits to both binding systems. With your knees hurting stay with the Rottefella bindings. You must have very old Atomic boots because Atomic boots have been Salomon compatible for some time now.

   I have the luxury of having both Salomon and Rottefella skating outfits. On hard pack and really icing conditions I can ski on rails with a the Rottefella bindings and Rossi skis. However not with the Salomon system. My knees ache after skiing boiler plate ice with Salomon and not with the Rottefella system. The Rottefella bindings have a very wide binding plate which allows leverage to easily edge the ski. With Salomon I have to angulate the ski a lot to get it to edge on hard pack or ice. Interestingly I prefer the Salomon while skate roller skiing on narrow 24mmX100mm wheels. If I use the Rottefella binding the edging is to powerful and the boot wants to give to the inside. Stay with Rottefella bindings and use "RICE" rest, ice, compression, and elevation. Hope this helps.

   Posted 1 year ago #

9. juniorbiathlete
   Member

   Thanks. I actually used to have salomon system but changed last year due to a need in upgraded skis and boots and NNN boots fit me the best. (My boots are relatively new, 2 years I'd say, as they were a demo model I bought last dec.) I did notice a small difference when I switched over to NNN and people told me it was only mental, but now it all makes sense. My race skis are rossi and my practice are madshus with NIS plate.

   Posted 1 year ago #

10. Hughp
    Member

    This is clearly something you need to address vigorously. Having to ice every night is not normal.
    1: technique: make sure there is nothing 'knock-kneed' about your skiing, both skating and classic. A few top racers ski with knock-knees, but for most people (including me) it leads to injury.
    2: ski classic too. It is excellent 'cross-training' for skating, and biathletes do do it: a few years ago at the Oslo world cup there was such a problem with klister on the shooting mats getting onto people's skate skis that the organisers had to designate shooting lanes for athletes using classic skis in training. You need to pay attention to ensure that your hip rotation does not pull your knees out of alignment.
    3: do some general strength work - and get someone knowledgeable to show you technique for squats, etc.
    4: go easy on the plyometrics. You should have a solid base of strength training before doing plyometrics, and since you don't use a gym I am guessing that you don't have that.
    5: consult a knowledgeable coach: there is a lot of lore in skiing and shooting that is easier to get from people who already know than to work it all out yourself or find it online.
    Good luck.

    Posted 1 year ago #

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