FasterSkier Forums » Racing

1. dvoisin
   Member

   Why does NENSA insist on mass starts for Eastern Cup Races? For those outside New England, these are used to choose the New England JO Team. There are very few venues in New England that can support a mass start with 200 starters or more, Jackson NH perhaps being the only one. The first race weekend of this year's EC circuit includes a mass start for a 10K! I can only imagine the broken equipment, crashes, and other carnage that will ensue.

   Mass starts are fine with sufficient starting space, for classic events, and a long course with wide trails to sort out the results, but if you are a J1 or OJ that is looking to make the team, a crash at the start of a 10K with the narrow New England trails that are pretty typical, you can forget getting any qualifying points. It often comes down to luck, not skill or fitness. Let it be decided on the trail, not within the first 200 meters!

   Posted 2 years ago #

2. tetlowjm
   Member

   I've raced at Black Mt. and at Presque Isle and there's tons of room for passing on those courses (especially for the classic mass start at presque isle). The last two weekends are both individual start. I think the Eastern Cups are layed out pretty well.

   Posted 2 years ago #

3. lsiebert
   Member

   I agree with dvoisin on this one. I've never raced at Presque Isle, but I have raced several mass starts at Black Mountain, and found that they could not handle the huge fields very well. An uphill start, with a sharp corner at the top? Then just a few hundred meters later a tricky sweeping downhill corner? Madness. Keep the Mass Starts to 15k or longer, and figure out a better way to do them please.

   Posted 2 years ago #

4. NE Racer
   Member

   The thing is, mass starts are never going to go away. They are appealing to fans and add a new thinking/tactical component to racing. From an athlete's perspective, nothing ticks me off more than a crowded mass start, espeacially that one in Rumford last year.

   Posted 2 years ago #

5. Don Haering
   Member

   Mass starts are sweet. Sure things get a little crazy and the unexpected can happen, but the best mass start racer usually wins. It's something every racer needs to practice because its something that the crowds love and probably isn't going away (and shouldn't).

   Posted 2 years ago #

6. dvoisin
   Member

   Totally agreed on the points regarding spectating; they are exiting and easy to follow. They are also a welcome change to the time-trial nature of interval starts. However if qualifying for Junior Nationals on the line, it's a bum way to lose out on a great experience. Ya, that may be the nature of sport, but it has its place. Citizen races and Marathons are great for Mass Starts, assuming there is the room for it. The start of the Craftsbury Marathon, for example is totally fine, even tame (knock on wood). When you cram it in to Black Mountain, Holderness, Oak Hill, Prospect, etc, it's a problem. Skiers are going down, thousands of dollars of equipment can be ruined. So how does one practice? I recall a video of a spoof on training for the start of the swim of a triathlon. It involved a guy getting the piss knocked out of him with foam jousting batons from folks in boats while he tried to break free. Maybe I should do the same for my junior team! Keep the Mass Starts to Jackson (I've never skied Presque Isle, sorry).

   Posted 2 years ago #

7. joeg
   Member

   Mass Start races work well for marathon racing, but are a disaster for any short serious races. Unless the field is 30 or less, it is simply unfair. If you have a good seed, you are fine. But anyone with a poor seeded position might as well not even waste their time. And if any field is subject to improper seeding it is junior skiers. Their performance can rise so rapidly that their seeding might not keep up. As a compromise, I suggest wave starts of 30 skiers or less at a time.

   Posted 2 years ago #

8. skier1
   Member

   I like there being opportunities to practice mass start skills so when skiers encouner them in bigger races they have had some practice. However, I do not think the early eastern cups are a good place for it because juniors' abilities change so much over the summer and the way the race is seeded is not representative of how people will race. It gets to be a pile up. I also do not think these races are very safe in general, because there are a lot of unskilled skiers who REALLY want to make JOs and they are not skiing safely. They trample the hell out of everyone without caring what effect they are having on the other people. I think there should be a lot of referees watching the first 400m and disqualifying people who do unsafe things. There is a precendent now from the new sprint rules, that would support that. Also the skiers at the front sometimes tour while the skiers at the back go hard and then the skiers in the middle get crunched. Because there are often some newly very fit skiers at the back wanting to make JOs. I agree mass starts are sometimes being put on courses that cannot handle it. I think this adds to the problem of it not being fair because on an inappropriate course a mass start is more likely to leave badly seeded skiers trapped at the back. I think we should have some mass starts, but do it later in the season and maybe not have them be JOQs, and do them only on courses that can handle it. People who really want to practice mass starts can enter the races that have mass starts.

   JOQ mass starts are a recipe for injury because the skiers are too desperate for points combined with often weak skills and lack of maturity and consideration for other people.

   Posted 2 years ago #

9. SickterScale
   Member

   @skier1

   should high school baseball teams start playing with wiffle balls? maybe two hand touch for football...
   mass starts are a part of xc ski racing. Personally I would rather have all mass starts compared to intervals, I think it really ups the level of head to head competition vs. the old "disappear into the woods for an hour and then find out who won" approach.

   Posted 2 years ago #

10. skier1
    Member

    I agree, when the course and the size of the field are well matched. The problem is when they are not. PI is OK in my opinion, at least for classic.

    Baseball: no wiffle balls, but I do notice and agree with the catcher having a lot of padding and a face mask. Reasonable safety measures are an important part of sports.

    Posted 2 years ago #

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