I am using the slowest wheels for the v2 900 classic skis. I am an OK skier, nothing great. I like to do some striding and DP and such when I rollerski most days. I find the slow wheels are about like running pace when I look at a typical distance ski.
Would I be better served with a medium or fast wheel? I ski in a hilly area and use speed reducers and brakes just because the skis make me nervous when I go too fast.
Slower wheels will always give you more resistance and training value. As long as you are not pushing yourself too hard on your "easy" workouts, there is no problem with slow wheels.
Many other brands of rollerskis are faster than the V2 910's however. This could create problems if you were working out with other skiers and had to use too much effort to keep up with other skiers at an easy pace.
I wouldn't compare the rollerski speed to running speed. You are trying to simulate skiing as closely as possible, so compare the rollerskiing speed to snow ski speed. I think they should be pretty close at the same perceived effort or heart rate.
Of course, we all know that different snow conditions can dictate quite different ski speeds and effort, so maybe it's a good idea to use different speed rollerskis from time to time.
Any other opinions?
Randy
>Any other opinions?
I believe Jenex has studies showing that slow, slow wheels give a better training effect, even if you are actually moving slower than you would normal ski. (I assume this has to do with increased muscle fiber recruitment, etc.--same reason it's good training to row with a bungee cord around your boat.)
And, subjectively, I think most people find that roller-skiing just isn't a very efficient workout--something about wheels on hard surface; no matter how much you crank the speed reducers, it's just always takes less effort than real skiing does.
So, I'd keep the slow wheels and focus more on Level 1 / 2 type training (you can always use running for interval training).
Jon
Actually, the study shows that rollerskiing with slow wheels is nearly identical to snow skiing both in speed and in effort:
ROLLER SKI STUDY IN SWEDEN
The problem of comparing roller skis to snow skis is that snow ski courses are usually different from roller ski courses. The study in Sweden eliminated that problem as the roller ski course is the snow ski course in the winter. Six test subjects were used for the study. There were two tests on snow, both under very favorable snow conditions. Lactate levels, pulse rates and the skiers time over the course were recorded during each test.
( Watches and pulse meters with memory were covered with tape so the test subjects could not see their time or their pulse rates. ) Tests were performed at both distance and at race speed.
When the roller ski season started the same tests were run with all skiers on V2-910 roller skis, the slowest V2 ski. For the 5K race test, the times on snow and roller skis were virtually identical with three skiers being slightly faster on the roller skis and the others just a few seconds slower. Pulse rates and lactate levels were statistically the same. For the distance test the roller skis were again similar to snow with three skiers faster on roller skis, the others only minimally slower than on snow. In the distance test, as in the race test, pulse rates and lactate levels were almost identical. Before the skiers were allowed to see the data they were asked how roller skiing compared to snow skiing. All but one of the six skiers thought roller skiing was
slower. ( Perception studies indicate that when moving in a ski track people think they are going faster than when moving in a wider space such as a road when roller skiing. ) The summary states: The test results reinforced our earlier opinion that the V2-910 roller skis are very similar to skiing on snow. The study was done by Anders Ek and supervised by Dr. Karin Piehl Aulin.
Lawrence:
I may not be reading carefully enough, but is the study on classic or skate techniques?
(I think I remember that in terms of training effect, rollerskiing is reverse of snow skiing in that skating actually gives better results. Classical rollerskiing becomes (too) easy due to the ratchet (i.e., classical rollerskiing eliminates the work usually needed to set the ski.)
The perception study's insight is interesting--I assume it also explains why skiing at night always feels incredibly fast...
@Jon44: I assume that the study was done with classic technique, because Jenex 910 rollerskis are classic skis.
It is surprising, isn't it? I used 910's for years, and I always felt so slow on them.
I believe that, if technique for classic skiing is good, the ratchet on classic rollerskis does not degrade technique, because forward movement in good classic technique is always extending from a fixed point, so that pressing the ski down is part of moving forwards, if you know what I mean. Different snow conditions will require a different "attack", but I don't believe that classic rollerskiing has a negative effect on snow technique.
Our local chip seal roads deliver slow wheel speed to all but inflatable wheels. It kinda matches the glue-like snow in the PNW! The shattered county budget means the roads won't get re-chipped soon, but then the tar starts adding a different twist.
Get some different speed wheels and see what works better for YOU. Different years you will have different needs from your training.
Good comments everyone. Using my GPS, I've confirmed that I RS at about the same speeds as I ski for similar effort. But then I ski @ 5-6K' & RS at 500'.
Here's a different way to consider wheel speed. Since you have hills to train on you have no problem getting enough resistance for intense interval training. Unless you have very limited training time, the largest portion of your summer/fall RS training should be Zone 1-2 (in a 5 zone system). The biggest problem with slow skiing/RSing is maintaining good technique whether skate or classic. The most common flaws I see w/ slow skiing/RSing are becoming more upright & less complete weight transfer. The weight transfer problem is more pronounced on RS probably due to increased fear of falling.
So I suggest you use a HR monitor, classic RS your usual courses & see if you can keep good form while staying within Zone 1-2. If you have a friend who can shot video of you while RSing that would give you a good check on your form. Skiing slowly w/ good form is really a challenge. If your wheels are too slow, you'll find it hard to stay within Z 1-2.
At 65, I need faster wheels to do Z1 training w/ good form in classic & especially V2 skate. I mostly have good pavements to RS on but when I get on a chip seal, its like two wheel speeds slower & takes much more effort.
Even Petter Northug says he has to do lots of video analysis of his form when he gets back on snow to correct technique flaws he develops from RSing.
If you need info about using an HR monitor, I can pass along some tips. There is only a modest consensus about what Zone 1 is but its slower that what most athletes usually think it is.
I completely agree with Tradesmith about the rollerskiing fear factor. For example, in both classic and skate technique, the body extends forward, and the leg extends following the line established by the trunk. This means that the hip, knee and ankle extend together in both techniques. In skating on rollerskis, leading with the head is scary, as is getting up on the ball of the foot immediately as the leg extends. One feels very vulnerable in this open condition, but then poling becomes much more powerful, etc.
I want that Ironman suit, and I want it to be air-conditioned.
Thanks for the ideas, I think my 910s are somewhat similar speed wise to skiing, I find that double poling up smallish hills is tough, but that's why I'm out there. In terms of workload, it seems pretty good, i can do other sports to get the intensity but figure the balance and strength are what holds me back with skiing. Plus everything else.
Boy, the rear wheel wear on these skis is killing me. our roads here are crowned and perhaps I pronate a bit also. Just doing new clutch wheels is over 100 bucks. Can I run the clutch wheel up front on these skis?
I thought the default for V2 skis was clutch wheel in front? I've had 2 different pairs of 900 series skis and used and seen many others, and they all had front clutch wheels. So if yours aren't, go ahead and switch.
I agree; put the clutched wheel up front. Then you can both switch the free wheels in the rear both from ski to ski and also turn them 180 degrees to help even out the wear.
Lawrence, I think classic RS can hurt on-snow technique, if one is not mindful of the pitfalls. I like to feel the gliding ski unweight, enough to feel, hear, and/or see it's front wheel briefly jump off the pavement as I "set the wax" on the kicking ski.
Randy
Good tip, Randy. I'll try that.
One thing I do notice is that one does not need to get the gliding ski forward as much when one is classic rollerskiing, so when I get back to snow, I really have to think about getting the ski more forward to not depress the pocket.
Hmm, and I'll have to try that! Thanks.
Randy
Jroden,
Wheel wear/cost is an constant w/ all 70x40 mm RS especially if you weigh say over 160 lbs or RS in hot weather. And the slower/softer wheels are the worst.
Certainly put the clutched wheels up front. But you also need to choose what characteristics are important to you. Using a moderately fast wheel speed say the W30 in back will help some without getting a lot faster. Clearly from your discussions you've got more resistance than you need w/ the 910s so put a harder wheel in back the next time you replace them. The most durable 70 mm rear wheel I've found is the W94 for the 940 but its pretty fast. You may want to add a rear speed reducer for descents if you use these.
Sticking w/ unevenly worn slow wheels will lead to poor technique from trying to stay on top of wobbly RS. Kind of defeats the purpose of the higher resistance.
After many years of considering this, I think the huge benefits of RSing both skate & classic vastly out weigh the small risk of technique flaws - FOR EXPERIENCED SKIERS. Its a different story for new skiers. For them, consistent coaching until they have good form is needed. But even for them RSing vastly cuts the time it takes them to develop good form once they are on snow.
As I said earlier IMHO, slow skiing is more of a challenge to good form training than classic RSing alone. But most of our early RSing is slow so we are doubly challenged. But the muscles you need for a powerful kick will not develop great endurance w/o classic RSing many hours. Compared to everything else I've seen, technique flaws produced by classic RS are pretty small potatoes. So I encourage everyone to classic RS lots to become a better racer. Once on snow, either get video'd, coached or ski on slightly slippery skis some to get your kick form back.
Randy, I got out for a muddy rollerski this morning, and I found that, when was giving a good enough kick to make the front wheel of the glide ski hop, I was tending to get that ski more forward, as one does on snow! Two birds with one stone...
Thanks,
Lawrence
thanks for the tips, indeed the rear wheel is free spinning. i ordered a new set, i will see if they can swap in maybe the 20 speed and see how it works out.
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